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	<title>Comments on: Porn: Pleasure or Profit? Ms. Interviews Gail Dines, Part II</title>
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	<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/</link>
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		<title>By: Sina</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12200</link>
		<dc:creator>Sina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-12200</guid>
		<description>Sexual Tension betrween male and females also exist without porn. And being disappointed in sex has a long tradition, especially for females. Weŕe being told since small on that sex is something &quot;sacred&quot;, the greatest thing in the world...when girls have their first vaginal intercourse, it is usually a huge dissapointment since itś not told enough that sexuality is something that can also be a simple thing, and something that grows into something wonderful in time. Young people expect sex to be mind-blowing from the start, when its often something one has to learn. Most get over this initial disappointment and discover sex on their own, but unfortunately not all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sexual Tension betrween male and females also exist without porn. And being disappointed in sex has a long tradition, especially for females. Weŕe being told since small on that sex is something &quot;sacred&quot;, the greatest thing in the world&#8230;when girls have their first vaginal intercourse, it is usually a huge dissapointment since itś not told enough that sexuality is something that can also be a simple thing, and something that grows into something wonderful in time. Young people expect sex to be mind-blowing from the start, when its often something one has to learn. Most get over this initial disappointment and discover sex on their own, but unfortunately not all.</p>
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		<title>By: Sina</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-12199</link>
		<dc:creator>Sina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-12199</guid>
		<description>So if oneś a performer, the body is reduced to an object. What about actors? They don just show physical activities, but make their whole self a commercial product. But I dont think anyone would call them undignified. That people think of porn in general as something undignified shows that they think sex is somehow undignified. The commerical product is performed sex, not the bodies of the performers.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if oneś a performer, the body is reduced to an object. What about actors? They don just show physical activities, but make their whole self a commercial product. But I dont think anyone would call them undignified. That people think of porn in general as something undignified shows that they think sex is somehow undignified. The commerical product is performed sex, not the bodies of the performers.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-12089</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-12089</guid>
		<description>@Aletha 
  
 
  
So you claim society is sexist. You&#039;re right. 
  
 
  
Why does primary and secondary education treat boyishness like a disease -- with focus going on female students who consequently get higher grades? Or single-mother families who raise sons and daughters with no father figures meaning girls don&#039;t have proper expectations of a man and boys themselves don&#039;t have a role-model which cripples them socially later on in life which is especially hard considering females are more socially tuned than males and better able to think in ways which are valued in modern society.  
  
 
  
Women are less likely to actively complain to management and less likely to question and their focus and drive tends to be more intense. 
  
 
  
This means that rather than there actually be gender equality, males become uneducated and as their strength is no longer required -- nor are their masculine qualities -- males no longer have a position in society.  
  
 
  
This frustration has to go somewhere, doesn&#039;t it? Older men already in seats of power have seen this happening and aren&#039;t exactly going to hand the pedestal equally when they know it spells the end of their own gender equality, are they? 
  
 
  
They&#039;re going to treat women unfairly because they&#039;re frightened they&#039;ll go extinct because society favors female development over male development. Worse still, this means &#039;manly&#039; men favored by women (who let&#039;s be honest prefer alpha males every time over &#039;sweet caring sensitive guys&#039;) are effectively going extinct. This is why there are &#039;no good men&#039;.  
  
 
  
I&#039;m not blaming anyone but we should widen our scope of attention and genuinely enforce actual equality rather than over-compensate for one side and tip the balance in their favor, as we have. A guy cries rape? Noone listens. A girl cries rape? Proof or not, he risks going to prison and even if he doesn&#039;t, it could ruin his career. Now that&#039;s fucked up -- and yes, women do rape men. It does happen. 
  
 
  
As for wages? All you have to do is pluck up the courage to ask. The number of males to females asking for raises is skewed toward males but the proportion who are accepted is actually about equal. 
  
 
  
Go be brave. Ask for a raise.  
  
 
  
Men are abused every day. 
  
 
  
In ways so subtle that you&#039;d just expect them to compensate or react -- but they can&#039;t, because society has double standards of gender. 
  
 
  
The worst thing is when a girl expects you to pay for dinner and then never calls you back.  
  
What, you want equality and now you seriously expect me to continue filling the role of a provider? Get real. 
  
 
  
For the record, not all gay guys are fashion gurus designed to appease your sense of humour while seeming non-threatening like tiny squeaky toy-dogs of men as so many wish them to be. Its just another state of sexuality that excludes women.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aletha </p>
<p>So you claim society is sexist. You&#8217;re right. </p>
<p>Why does primary and secondary education treat boyishness like a disease &#8212; with focus going on female students who consequently get higher grades? Or single-mother families who raise sons and daughters with no father figures meaning girls don&#8217;t have proper expectations of a man and boys themselves don&#8217;t have a role-model which cripples them socially later on in life which is especially hard considering females are more socially tuned than males and better able to think in ways which are valued in modern society.  </p>
<p>Women are less likely to actively complain to management and less likely to question and their focus and drive tends to be more intense. </p>
<p>This means that rather than there actually be gender equality, males become uneducated and as their strength is no longer required &#8212; nor are their masculine qualities &#8212; males no longer have a position in society.  </p>
<p>This frustration has to go somewhere, doesn&#8217;t it? Older men already in seats of power have seen this happening and aren&#8217;t exactly going to hand the pedestal equally when they know it spells the end of their own gender equality, are they? </p>
<p>They&#8217;re going to treat women unfairly because they&#8217;re frightened they&#8217;ll go extinct because society favors female development over male development. Worse still, this means &#8216;manly&#8217; men favored by women (who let&#8217;s be honest prefer alpha males every time over &#8216;sweet caring sensitive guys&#8217;) are effectively going extinct. This is why there are &#8216;no good men&#8217;.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not blaming anyone but we should widen our scope of attention and genuinely enforce actual equality rather than over-compensate for one side and tip the balance in their favor, as we have. A guy cries rape? Noone listens. A girl cries rape? Proof or not, he risks going to prison and even if he doesn&#8217;t, it could ruin his career. Now that&#8217;s fucked up &#8212; and yes, women do rape men. It does happen. </p>
<p>As for wages? All you have to do is pluck up the courage to ask. The number of males to females asking for raises is skewed toward males but the proportion who are accepted is actually about equal. </p>
<p>Go be brave. Ask for a raise.  </p>
<p>Men are abused every day. </p>
<p>In ways so subtle that you&#8217;d just expect them to compensate or react &#8212; but they can&#8217;t, because society has double standards of gender. </p>
<p>The worst thing is when a girl expects you to pay for dinner and then never calls you back.  </p>
<p>What, you want equality and now you seriously expect me to continue filling the role of a provider? Get real. </p>
<p>For the record, not all gay guys are fashion gurus designed to appease your sense of humour while seeming non-threatening like tiny squeaky toy-dogs of men as so many wish them to be. Its just another state of sexuality that excludes women.</p>
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		<title>By: Aletha</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-11024</link>
		<dc:creator>Aletha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-11024</guid>
		<description>Starchild, just whom are you calling anti-sex crusaders? What exactly is that insult supposed to mean, and how do you suppose it fits those you are insulting?  
 
The men in prostitution and gay male pornography may also be exploited, but they are a small minority, and an exploited woman, no matter how much she is bribed to accept that, is still exploited. Your idea of symmetrical exploitation in this thoroughly sexist society makes about as much sense as the men&#039;s rights activists who claim as many men are battered by women as women are battered by men. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starchild, just whom are you calling anti-sex crusaders? What exactly is that insult supposed to mean, and how do you suppose it fits those you are insulting?  </p>
<p>The men in prostitution and gay male pornography may also be exploited, but they are a small minority, and an exploited woman, no matter how much she is bribed to accept that, is still exploited. Your idea of symmetrical exploitation in this thoroughly sexist society makes about as much sense as the men&#039;s rights activists who claim as many men are battered by women as women are battered by men.</p>
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		<title>By: Starchild</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10969</link>
		<dc:creator>Starchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 05:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-10969</guid>
		<description>As a male sex worker and sometimes porn video performer I find the anti-sex crusaders tend to avoid talking about the existence of people like myself, despite the fact that huge numbers of people in our profession *are* male. Because we kind of mess up their preposterous theory about how pornography and prostitution are all about the exploitation of women. It&#039;s beyond absurd to claim that an industry where women earn higher wages than men on average is oppressing women. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I am not saying I&#039;m oppressed simply because I don&#039;t make as much money as I would if I were as conventionally attractive a female as I am a male. That simply reflects our biological heritage in which women have evolved not to want sex with &quot;strangers&quot; as much on average as men do. If you&#039;re going to claim that women are victimized by porn, then be consistent and talk about how men are victimized by sappy &quot;together forever&quot; love songs. It makes about as much sense. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a male sex worker and sometimes porn video performer I find the anti-sex crusaders tend to avoid talking about the existence of people like myself, despite the fact that huge numbers of people in our profession *are* male. Because we kind of mess up their preposterous theory about how pornography and prostitution are all about the exploitation of women. It&#039;s beyond absurd to claim that an industry where women earn higher wages than men on average is oppressing women. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I am not saying I&#039;m oppressed simply because I don&#039;t make as much money as I would if I were as conventionally attractive a female as I am a male. That simply reflects our biological heritage in which women have evolved not to want sex with &quot;strangers&quot; as much on average as men do. If you&#039;re going to claim that women are victimized by porn, then be consistent and talk about how men are victimized by sappy &quot;together forever&quot; love songs. It makes about as much sense.</p>
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		<title>By: one angry girl</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10467</link>
		<dc:creator>one angry girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-10467</guid>
		<description>this &quot;interview&quot; is the reason why I will never purchase Ms. magazine again. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this &quot;interview&quot; is the reason why I will never purchase Ms. magazine again.</p>
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		<title>By: [storytime] Sympathy for the Anti-Porn Feminists &#171; Clarisse Thorn</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-9483</link>
		<dc:creator>[storytime] Sympathy for the Anti-Porn Feminists &#171; Clarisse Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-9483</guid>
		<description>[...] obvious that Pornland is breathtaking in its lack of evidence. (My personal favorite coverage is this interview, in which Dines&#8217; own former research assistant &#8212; who is now a porn performer &#8212; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] obvious that Pornland is breathtaking in its lack of evidence. (My personal favorite coverage is this interview, in which Dines&#8217; own former research assistant &#8212; who is now a porn performer &#8212; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-7111</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-7111</guid>
		<description>Part II of this interview is an example of how far our culture has moved away from feminism.  I used to turn to Ms. as a resource for women centered perspectives.  Sadly, perspectives that embrace the porn industry -- an industry that perpetuates messages of violence against women, focuses primarily on male pleasure, and is almost exclusively controlled by white men -- demonstrate how far we have moved from our original concern for women&#039;s rights.  Ms. readers used to be outraged by examples of sexism, racism, and misogyny -- all pervasive in porn.  Sexual freedom is about using our own imaginations to create personal sensual experiences.  Turning to porn is harmful because the industry is founded on perpetuating women&#039;s objectification. This can&#039;t be overlooked and proves the flaw in the logic of those willing to embrace porn in the name of &quot;sexual freedom.&quot;  Sexual freedom is limited if it is based within a structure that dehumanizes women.  Fighting for economic and social equality were the basic tenants of feminism and a concern for humanity.  Supporting the porn industry is completely antithetical to these tenants.

Gail Dines&#039; book is a powerful resource for those of us who want to reclaim our sexuality and not have it defined by an industry that is interested in making money off of women&#039;s bodies.  It&#039;s the awakening that a generation of feminist need in order to realize how far our culture has moved from the messages of true empowerment that feminists used to demand -- empowerment centered on equality and respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part II of this interview is an example of how far our culture has moved away from feminism.  I used to turn to Ms. as a resource for women centered perspectives.  Sadly, perspectives that embrace the porn industry &#8212; an industry that perpetuates messages of violence against women, focuses primarily on male pleasure, and is almost exclusively controlled by white men &#8212; demonstrate how far we have moved from our original concern for women&#8217;s rights.  Ms. readers used to be outraged by examples of sexism, racism, and misogyny &#8212; all pervasive in porn.  Sexual freedom is about using our own imaginations to create personal sensual experiences.  Turning to porn is harmful because the industry is founded on perpetuating women&#8217;s objectification. This can&#8217;t be overlooked and proves the flaw in the logic of those willing to embrace porn in the name of &#8220;sexual freedom.&#8221;  Sexual freedom is limited if it is based within a structure that dehumanizes women.  Fighting for economic and social equality were the basic tenants of feminism and a concern for humanity.  Supporting the porn industry is completely antithetical to these tenants.</p>
<p>Gail Dines&#8217; book is a powerful resource for those of us who want to reclaim our sexuality and not have it defined by an industry that is interested in making money off of women&#8217;s bodies.  It&#8217;s the awakening that a generation of feminist need in order to realize how far our culture has moved from the messages of true empowerment that feminists used to demand &#8212; empowerment centered on equality and respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Random Observer</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-7030</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-7030</guid>
		<description>Valerie says:

&quot;Random Observer- So you don’t disagree that sex isn’t the answer to everything?&quot;

Who the ever said it was? Just what kind of straw man are you battling?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valerie says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Random Observer- So you don’t disagree that sex isn’t the answer to everything?&#8221;</p>
<p>Who the ever said it was? Just what kind of straw man are you battling?</p>
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		<title>By: Food for Thought: Latest Pro-Porn News and Information &#124; Our Porn, Ourselves</title>
		<link>http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/07/porn-pleasure-or-profit-ms-interviews-gail-dines-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-7004</link>
		<dc:creator>Food for Thought: Latest Pro-Porn News and Information &#124; Our Porn, Ourselves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13512#comment-7004</guid>
		<description>[...] that came from her former intern &#8212; who is now a porn performer herself. Don&#8217;t miss Porn: Pleasure or Profit? Ms. Interviews Gail Dines, Part II. Dines famously campaigns against porn as &#8220;for profit and not for pleasure&#8221; while [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that came from her former intern &#8212; who is now a porn performer herself. Don&#8217;t miss Porn: Pleasure or Profit? Ms. Interviews Gail Dines, Part II. Dines famously campaigns against porn as &#8220;for profit and not for pleasure&#8221; while [...]</p>
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