Comments on: Bella’s Eclipsed Role in Twilight Lacks Fangs http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:35:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Claudia http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-25769 Claudia Fri, 18 Mar 2011 05:46:22 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-25769 You mention Jacob kissing Bella without her permission and yet don't mention that she punches him in the face after? I think that was a pretty ass kicking move! Also there are many places in the book that Bella talks about choice, not just the one that suites your needs. She talks about all different choices in life (Not just Edward vs. Jacob) but choices about where to go to college, whether to get married, if she is going to want children, etc. Choices that many young women think about. Bella is stubborn and always fights to get her way. I mean I know the book wasn't written to be feminist, it was written to be entertaining. But honestly I wish I had these books as a teenager. When I was younger I felt a lot of pressure to be a certain way, dress a certain way, I felt pressured by boys to go out, etc. Bella dresses however she wants, acts however she wants and is never scared to say no. Not the worst thing to teach a girl. You mention Jacob kissing Bella without her permission and yet don't mention that she punches him in the face after? I think that was a pretty ass kicking move! Also there are many places in the book that Bella talks about choice, not just the one that suites your needs. She talks about all different choices in life (Not just Edward vs. Jacob) but choices about where to go to college, whether to get married, if she is going to want children, etc. Choices that many young women think about. Bella is stubborn and always fights to get her way. I mean I know the book wasn't written to be feminist, it was written to be entertaining. But honestly I wish I had these books as a teenager. When I was younger I felt a lot of pressure to be a certain way, dress a certain way, I felt pressured by boys to go out, etc. Bella dresses however she wants, acts however she wants and is never scared to say no. Not the worst thing to teach a girl.

]]> By: Elise http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-15887 Elise Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:41:15 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-15887 Well, first of all, I think its important to let Edward off the hook. If the author of the above article bothered to consider Edward's character more carefully, she would have discovered that Edward to all intents and purposes is a 100 year old man, not a teenager. His obsession to protect her stems not from a teenage obsession but rather at his, recent to him, connection to the human world. Edward has been all but indestructible for a 100 years, and has spent most of his life listening to everyone's thoughts. He finds it extremely frightening that now he's developed feelings for someone so fragile compared to him. Imagine having his eternal life and power and compare that to the fragility of the human body, every day exposed to countless dangers, aging and dying with every minute - his reaction is very rational, and not at all childish. Bella is not a character to be admired in the beginning of the book and she is not meant to be; she is not an idol, but is representative of one of us, a confused High school teenager, still trying to discover herself. Because in the end Bella says that something stronger draws her away from Jacob doesn't mean that she abandons her right to chose; is it true that if one describes one's feelings as a powerful larger then ordinary world love that becomes a driving force in one's life, that means that the person is no longer responsible for making a decision on that love? Absolutely not! I've known many people who've shied away from the strength of their love, who've chosen to walk away, albeit with regret. Ms. Meyer is using an elegant way of expressing the strength of Bella's love, not taking away her choice. I undertand that some feel that Bella is toying with the hearts of both of these men; unfortunately, that is so many of us would do and what both of these men would encourage by not abandoning their quest. These are human frailties and we all, especially while 17 year old teenagers in high school, are capable of these. Unfortunately, everything Bella does is what so many girls do in high school - I recall commiserating of my lost boyfriends in high school the same way. We may no like what we see in Bella, but perhaps its because she represents the less glorious qualities of us. There is a large theme of destiny in the Twilight series; but what everyone seems to miss is the one lesson that Twilight hopefully has taught women - stop settling. We settle on acceptable relationships every day. In every modern movie, we accept the less then perfect man and all his drawbacks. In Twilight, Bella gets the guy that we as women don't seem to fight for. Modern romantic stories are full of flawed men. Enters a perfect female character who we know can look beyond these flaws and love him anyway, because we women are such creatures. For a while it seems as if the flaws have disappeared. Then the very flaws that we thought were gone suddenly re-emerge during the climax of the story, and usually make the man act boorish, disrespectful, treacherous, mean, callous, or whorish. Then the female lead, because we women are naturally so maternal and forgiving, forgives him. Twilight stories tell our daughters - and us - that a man who is worthy of us would not act boorish, or disrespectful, that he wouldn't leave us to "sow his oats" to return later regretful, that he wouldn't treat us with disrespect, or use the excuse of our feelings for him (when we are 18) to stick his tongue down our throats, he will not forget to open the door for us or treat us like property. It tells us that if a man has flaws, those are here to stay and if we decide to stay with him, we will have to deal with the repercussion of those flaws. But, mostly, it tells us to hold out for the right man, the man who is worthy of us. I find too many of us who never do. People keep saying how the books are anti-feminist, but they are the very opposite, that's probably why so many women subconsciously flock to the stories. The books are about not settling. They are about holding on for the right guy, the real right guy. Well, first of all, I think its important to let Edward off the hook. If the author of the above article bothered to consider Edward's character more carefully, she would have discovered that Edward to all intents and purposes is a 100 year old man, not a teenager. His obsession to protect her stems not from a teenage obsession but rather at his, recent to him, connection to the human world. Edward has been all but indestructible for a 100 years, and has spent most of his life listening to everyone's thoughts. He finds it extremely frightening that now he's developed feelings for someone so fragile compared to him. Imagine having his eternal life and power and compare that to the fragility of the human body, every day exposed to countless dangers, aging and dying with every minute – his reaction is very rational, and not at all childish.
Bella is not a character to be admired in the beginning of the book and she is not meant to be; she is not an idol, but is representative of one of us, a confused High school teenager, still trying to discover herself. Because in the end Bella says that something stronger draws her away from Jacob doesn't mean that she abandons her right to chose; is it true that if one describes one's feelings as a powerful larger then ordinary world love that becomes a driving force in one's life, that means that the person is no longer responsible for making a decision on that love? Absolutely not! I've known many people who've shied away from the strength of their love, who've chosen to walk away, albeit with regret. Ms. Meyer is using an elegant way of expressing the strength of Bella's love, not taking away her choice.
I undertand that some feel that Bella is toying with the hearts of both of these men; unfortunately, that is so many of us would do and what both of these men would encourage by not abandoning their quest. These are human frailties and we all, especially while 17 year old teenagers in high school, are capable of these.
Unfortunately, everything Bella does is what so many girls do in high school – I recall commiserating of my lost boyfriends in high school the same way. We may no like what we see in Bella, but perhaps its because she represents the less glorious qualities of us.
There is a large theme of destiny in the Twilight series; but what everyone seems to miss is the one lesson that Twilight hopefully has taught women – stop settling. We settle on acceptable relationships every day. In every modern movie, we accept the less then perfect man and all his drawbacks. In Twilight, Bella gets the guy that we as women don't seem to fight for. Modern romantic stories are full of flawed men. Enters a perfect female character who we know can look beyond these flaws and love him anyway, because we women are such creatures. For a while it seems as if the flaws have disappeared. Then the very flaws that we thought were gone suddenly re-emerge during the climax of the story, and usually make the man act boorish, disrespectful, treacherous, mean, callous, or whorish. Then the female lead, because we women are naturally so maternal and forgiving, forgives him.
Twilight stories tell our daughters – and us – that a man who is worthy of us would not act boorish, or disrespectful, that he wouldn't leave us to "sow his oats" to return later regretful, that he wouldn't treat us with disrespect, or use the excuse of our feelings for him (when we are 18) to stick his tongue down our throats, he will not forget to open the door for us or treat us like property. It tells us that if a man has flaws, those are here to stay and if we decide to stay with him, we will have to deal with the repercussion of those flaws. But, mostly, it tells us to hold out for the right man, the man who is worthy of us. I find too many of us who never do. People keep saying how the books are anti-feminist, but they are the very opposite, that's probably why so many women subconsciously flock to the stories. The books are about not settling. They are about holding on for the right guy, the real right guy.

]]> By: Melissa C http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-7794 Melissa C Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:31:34 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-7794 I haven't read or watched Twilight, but it seems to me that a great feminist twist at the end of the saga would be for Bella to forget about both of these guys and decide that she doesn't want either of them! I haven't read or watched Twilight, but it seems to me that a great feminist twist at the end of the saga would be for Bella to forget about both of these guys and decide that she doesn't want either of them!

]]> By: Ebony http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-7083 Ebony Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:55:06 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-7083 I am brand new to the Twilight saga, but I am so glad you pointed out the abusive tendencies of Edward and Jacob. I just watched Twilight to see what the hype was about and was horrified at how easily her relationship could have gone really, really wrong in the real world. I'm not pleased to know that it isn't getting better. On the flip side, though, I am proud of the potentially feminist choices of the women behind the Twilight machine. They are making money in a man's world with a woman-centered story. Perhaps, the final installments will right old wrongs. I am brand new to the Twilight saga, but I am so glad you pointed out the abusive tendencies of Edward and Jacob. I just watched Twilight to see what the hype was about and was horrified at how easily her relationship could have gone really, really wrong in the real world. I’m not pleased to know that it isn’t getting better. On the flip side, though, I am proud of the potentially feminist choices of the women behind the Twilight machine. They are making money in a man’s world with a woman-centered story. Perhaps, the final installments will right old wrongs.

]]> By: Rebecca http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6898 Rebecca Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:54:22 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6898 You know, Meyer once said that her views subconsciously come through her writing... Meyer is a Mormon. While I'm aware there are Mormon's out there that have progressive views (I haven't met any, but I'm just being optimistic), Meyer clearly isn't one of those people, judging by the sexist, anti-feminist, mysognistic views that she spews in her books. I'm aware that personal beliefs in writing have sent powerful and positive messages in the past, but here's a perfect example of when that message isn't quite so positive at all. And people are eating it up because of the abstinence message that the books actually do send. Because of this country's aversion to sex, people are gobbling it up and not understanding that Edward is an abusive, controlling, stalkerish prick and that Jacob is no better - in fact, his abusive ways are even more colorful and obvious than Edward's. Meyer tapped into teenage insecurities and placed a theme of abstinence and a lack of sex in the books (barring Breaking Dawn). Throw it in with romantic prose, and females everywhere are suddenly eating it up right alongside the sexist media. It's sickening. I don't want a protector like Edward or Jacob, I want an equal and a companion to live my life with. Protecting only comes when I'm at my weakest and I voice that I need it. You know, Meyer once said that her views subconsciously come through her writing…

Meyer is a Mormon.

While I’m aware there are Mormon’s out there that have progressive views (I haven’t met any, but I’m just being optimistic), Meyer clearly isn’t one of those people, judging by the sexist, anti-feminist, mysognistic views that she spews in her books.

I’m aware that personal beliefs in writing have sent powerful and positive messages in the past, but here’s a perfect example of when that message isn’t quite so positive at all. And people are eating it up because of the abstinence message that the books actually do send. Because of this country’s aversion to sex, people are gobbling it up and not understanding that Edward is an abusive, controlling, stalkerish prick and that Jacob is no better – in fact, his abusive ways are even more colorful and obvious than Edward’s.

Meyer tapped into teenage insecurities and placed a theme of abstinence and a lack of sex in the books (barring Breaking Dawn). Throw it in with romantic prose, and females everywhere are suddenly eating it up right alongside the sexist media. It’s sickening. I don’t want a protector like Edward or Jacob, I want an equal and a companion to live my life with. Protecting only comes when I’m at my weakest and I voice that I need it.

]]> By: Jeff http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6852 Jeff Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:23:02 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6852 As a member of the dark genre fan club I guess I am on a hiding to nothing posting on this site, due to the depiction of females in run of the mill horror movies. Yes we have a lot to answer for in due course. The one thing I've noted with the "Twilgiht" series, besides the absurd reinvention of the vampire myth, is the depiction of Bella in an even less savoury light than most horror movies. The series has set back the feminist movement by at least ten years and I don't want to even think about the effects is may have on young women. Just a note, loved the review above btw. As a member of the dark genre fan club I guess I am on a hiding to nothing posting on this site, due to the depiction of females in run of the mill horror movies. Yes we have a lot to answer for in due course.

The one thing I’ve noted with the “Twilgiht” series, besides the absurd reinvention of the vampire myth, is the depiction of Bella in an even less savoury light than most horror movies. The series has set back the feminist movement by at least ten years and I don’t want to even think about the effects is may have on young women.

Just a note, loved the review above btw.

]]> By: Liz http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6638 Liz Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:13:34 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6638 I love this site!!!! Great analysis. Feminism isn't just making decisions. It's being able to make decisions that are informed by a clear understanding of our location in a matrix of domination (racism, sexism, etc). Bella is not her own person ... she is pulled by the desires of men. In the end, this book is precisely about a young, awkward girl being so desired by men that they battle over their plans for her life. The story isn't about empowerment it's about the fantasy of being desired to the point of personal destruction. I love this site!!!! Great analysis. Feminism isn’t just making decisions. It’s being able to make decisions that are informed by a clear understanding of our location in a matrix of domination (racism, sexism, etc). Bella is not her own person … she is pulled by the desires of men. In the end, this book is precisely about a young, awkward girl being so desired by men that they battle over their plans for her life. The story isn’t about empowerment it’s about the fantasy of being desired to the point of personal destruction.

]]> By: Tina http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6599 Tina Mon, 05 Jul 2010 00:19:11 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6599 The article is spot on! I have been a hater of the series ever since I read the book. Stephanie Meyer is one lousy writer. Place her books against JK Rowling's Harry Potter series and you literally get trash. Loopholes in plot lines, a spineless heroine manipulated around like puppet strings by Jacob and Edward and a mother who is happy to desert her child for the sake of her athlete partner?! Like mother, like daughter I suppose. What's even more disturbing is young American teen girls slurping this series up like it was the best literary piece of work ever written when it's even worse than any Mills and Boon romance. Meyer has definitely swindled the planet with these books. The movies are no better and hence the article above which I really agree on. Bella allows herself to drift through most of her situations and she doesn't seem to have the strength to say 'No' in most situations. It also hearkens to her being some sort of passive ego-maniac because both Edward and Jacob give her all the different type of attention this poor girl craves because she herself doesn't love herself. She seeks validation from everyone outside of her and doesn't see her own inner magnificence and this itself is another glaring example of how bad this sort of behaviour is for young girls and also why people should stop reading the series. And that's my main pet peeve about the series. Perhaps if Meyer had spent more time redefining her idea of feminism, Bella's character could have been a more action-punching one where her decisions were based on what she wanted out life. The article is spot on! I have been a hater of the series ever since I read the book. Stephanie Meyer is one lousy writer. Place her books against JK Rowling’s Harry Potter series and you literally get trash. Loopholes in plot lines, a spineless heroine manipulated around like puppet strings by Jacob and Edward and a mother who is happy to desert her child for the sake of her athlete partner?!

Like mother, like daughter I suppose.

What’s even more disturbing is young American teen girls slurping this series up like it was the best literary piece of work ever written when it’s even worse than any Mills and Boon romance. Meyer has definitely swindled the planet with these books.

The movies are no better and hence the article above which I really agree on. Bella allows herself to drift through most of her situations and she doesn’t seem to have the strength to say ‘No’ in most situations. It also hearkens to her being some sort of passive ego-maniac because both Edward and Jacob give her all the different type of attention this poor girl craves because she herself doesn’t love herself.

She seeks validation from everyone outside of her and doesn’t see her own inner magnificence and this itself is another glaring example of how bad this sort of behaviour is for young girls and also why people should stop reading the series.

And that’s my main pet peeve about the series. Perhaps if Meyer had spent more time redefining her idea of feminism, Bella’s character could have been a more action-punching one where her decisions were based on what she wanted out life.

]]> By: Rebecca http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6554 Rebecca Sat, 03 Jul 2010 07:28:01 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6554 Oh, finally. I personally think the critique on Bella should be more vicious than what the article is making it out to be, but good job anyway. :) I think feminism is a combination of the right for a female to choose how to run their own lives, as well as the chance for a female to not let her life be controlled by the opposite sex; a chance for her to find her own identity without men dictating what she should do, and a chance for her to think for herself. The Twilight franchise espouses neither. And girls and women are sadly eating this stuff up like it's Godiva chocolate. Palaverer, you are absolutely correct about your conclusion of Bella. I read the books out of curiosity, and because I work in a bookstore. In New Moon, she goes absolutely catatonic after an initial breakup. The author claims she's being "strong," when in reality, she's going around like a zombie...and screaming in her sleep, as the movie does depict rather well. Oh, finally.

I personally think the critique on Bella should be more vicious than what the article is making it out to be, but good job anyway. :)

I think feminism is a combination of the right for a female to choose how to run their own lives, as well as the chance for a female to not let her life be controlled by the opposite sex; a chance for her to find her own identity without men dictating what she should do, and a chance for her to think for herself.

The Twilight franchise espouses neither. And girls and women are sadly eating this stuff up like it’s Godiva chocolate.

Palaverer, you are absolutely correct about your conclusion of Bella. I read the books out of curiosity, and because I work in a bookstore. In New Moon, she goes absolutely catatonic after an initial breakup. The author claims she’s being “strong,” when in reality, she’s going around like a zombie…and screaming in her sleep, as the movie does depict rather well.

]]> By: Sue Taylor http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/07/01/bellas-eclipsed-role-in-twilight-lacks-fangs/comment-page-1/#comment-6529 Sue Taylor Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:21:00 +0000 http://msmagazine.com/blog/?p=13287#comment-6529 I introduced my daughter to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series as an anti-dote to Twilight. Highly effective. I introduced my daughter to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series as an anti-dote to Twilight. Highly effective.

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